If time travel were to be invented, someone would have seen it and it would be known, thus time travel hasn't, and never will, exist

Not only that, but if time travel existed someone would have tried to alter it because as human beings we are way too intent on doing things we want, so someone probably would have wanted to "prevent" the holocaust and killed hitler, meaning it would have never happened

Buuuut, it did

Thus, time travel is never going to happen

Discuss

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Humans are intent on doing things the way they want.

You have presupposed this as factual information, so let us for the time being assume this is absolutely factual.

If humans are intent on what they want, then they will see things or come to conclusions in the direction towards what they want. This could be considered an off-shoot of the placebo effect, which defines that if someone were to believe something specific hard enough, then it would be so.

As a result, you choose to believe that time travel can not occur, despite the fact that there is no hard evidence explicitly detailing how it is either possible or impossible. This would, then, be taking facts and construing them into a direction to make it seem impossible, because you are intent on believing that it is impossible. This would be similar to asserting either that a transcendent spiritual being (A.K.A. God) either does or does not exist.

To put this into a different light, others may choose to believe that time traveling does exist, as they choose that as the answer to certain unknowns in life. You likely observe this and write them off as being crazy, uneducated, or wrong.

Therefore, the very core of your argument holds no weight and you actually have no evidence as to why time travel can not exist.

Your turn.

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That was hard to read...

But I wasn't intending for that to be factual, however, would you not agree that if someone who found let's say the holocaust to be a huge uhh...don't know a good word, like, detrimental to the future? Or some shit like that, went back in time and stopped it, then it would have never happened, meaning he never would have done it in the future, opening the possibility it really did happen?

I suppose its possible there are different planes of existence for such examples, but I feel that the idea of multiple planes, or dimensions, of existence is science fiction.

So, without proof to show that eventually at SOME point in the future someone had invented time travel(I'm sure it would be pretty obvious if someone had)then that in itself is proof enough that it never will exist

Your turn

Shred this one up!

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Rarity wrote:

So, without proof to show that eventually at SOME point in the future someone had invented time travel(I'm sure it would be pretty obvious if someone had)then that in itself is proof enough that it never will exist

As stupid as it sounds, I'm reminded of a certain scene from the third Harry Potter movie involving some time-travelling locket that sent Harry and Hermione back in time a few hours to fix some stupid shit that they thought they needed to fix. Despite their actions, the same results occurred, but in reality, those results were destined to happen regardless, and only after said actions and results was that realized by the two of them. How they perceived the results when they first experienced them pre-time travel was what made them think that they had to go back to 'fix' them. What actually resulted was the same thing, but since they saw the resulting event form and take place from a different standpoint, they realized that the event would happen no matter what, and that they didn't change history at all.

Of course, that's a fictional example, but still.

The way I imagine it, time can never be altered, as it is a predetermined set of events that come and go as one passes through the time stream. How we perceive time and the concept of time travelling bending time to one's whim as humans gives the belief that time can be altered, when in essence, it cannot. If time travel does exist, it exists for the sole purpose of these events taking place; again, assuming time travel exists, if there is an event in time where it would be revealed to mankind, then it will happen. If no such event exists, then we will forever remain unaware of its possible existence. Time travel would not alter the events in time because those events have already been determined in the time stream, and the time traveller(s) merely passing through time results in those events happening regardless.


Next.

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Hmm, well that is a legitimate response in most ways

However your assuming every event is predetermined which would mean that there is some higher power, or something of the like, who created said timeline and is now just acting out his grand play

Where the problem here is, is that this higher power would also have to be shackled by predetermined fate, which would result in another higher power and so on and so forth otherwise, said higher power may alter the "play" as he sees fit, which would change it from being predetermined

And you see the flaw in this: its a never ending loop

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Your telling me that if time travel was possible Hitler wouldn't exist? Two words, Butterfly effect. A person or group of individuals who may potentially find this ability to go through time would understand the potential dangers of altering history too much.

Example. If WWII did not occur and the nuclear bomb was never made we may not have the invention of nuclear fission. It may have taken an additional 100+ years. This then alters the course of history to such unknown factors that it's not advisable to kill Hitler.

Maybe Captain America did kill Hitler when he found the Eye of Odin and traveled back through time when he was a little boy and gave him a "SHIELD SMASH"! So when Cap returned to the present he found The Red Skull ruling the entire planet.

Player X -"If time travel were to be invented, someone would have seen it and it would be known, thus time travel hasn't, and never will, exist"

I killed them.




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But I wasn't intending for that to be factual, however, would you not agree that if someone who found let's say the holocaust to be a huge uhh...don't know a good word, like, detrimental to the future? Or some shit like that, went back in time and stopped it, then it would have never happened, meaning he never would have done it in the future, opening the possibility it really did happen?

There are a lot of issues with your argument. Instead of just listing out one argument at a time, I will just cover them all to make it easier for me.

First, I will amend what I earlier stated. Your idea is that humans are stubborn and will do what they want to do, e.g. stop the Jewish Holocaust. If this is so, then humans are stubborn and will think what they want to think.

My point is that you have no factual evidence backing that up. There is nothing explicitly stating that there will never be a way to time travel, ever. Therefore, your argument is pure conjecture and can not be taken as proof on such a broad scope. It literally is the exact same as saying that God exists because there is no way that we would have evolved in the very specific way we did to not only be able to survive on this planet and have the idea that God exists, or whatever other things people choose to argue regarding God.

Your argument is absolutely and completely baseless.

So how is it baseless?

Second, you are restricting yourself from the complete picture to focus purely on proving that time travel can not exist. This goes along with the earlier point of "humans are stubborn and will think what they want to think." In trying to prove this point, you have not explored all possibilities.

In the source event we are discussing, being the Jewish Holocaust, you argue that if time travel were to have existed, then someone would have gone back and stop it. You forget to recognize that it is already possible that someone did go back and change it. We can not have any knowledge of different histories. When something changes in the past, everything changes in the future. Those of the future would not know the exact finite details of the future before the change, and the future after the change.

To put it into a simple graph:



In this graph, the 2012 that occurs after the Holocaust no longer actually exists if the Holocaust were stopped. Instead, a new 2012 occurs where people have no reason to believe that there was any Holocaust to have happened at all.

Now apply this idea to every event in history ever, and suddenly you see why you have no factual information supporting your argument against time travel. If history were changed, we would not remember it. It would just be. To us, it is all just a line.

Third, it works both ways. Normally I would not go into detail regarding this specific argument, but I don't trust you to draw conclusions on your own. Just as we wouldn't remember it if something in the past changed, we wouldn't remember it if something in the past changed.

This has very obvious implications:



In this graph, I propose that the 2012 we are currently experiencing is actually ultimately altered because of time travel. Ultimately, we have no certain way to understand either, because the future that created the time travel and sent someone back to change things NO LONGER EXISTS.

I suppose its possible there are different planes of existence for such examples, but I feel that the idea of multiple planes, or dimensions, of existence is science fiction.

I presume this is because you do not understand the concept?

Fourth:

So, without proof to show that eventually at SOME point in the future someone had invented time travel(I'm sure it would be pretty obvious if someone had)then that in itself is proof enough that it never will exist

Regardless of the above arguments pointing out how it would in no way be obvious if someone did, you are also restricting your view even further with one specific mistake: The implication that humans will have access to this time travel publicly speaking.

There are a variety of other possibilities. To start with, perhaps the most likely, is that if someone were to actually draw up a plausible concept for time travel where it would be possible, it would immediately be seized by governmental authorities. The development of such a method would be kept incredibly quieted and if its creation proved successful, would likely never reach the public.

Why would it likely never reach the public?

Because anyone with the brain power to actually work with time as a concept understands three things. One, it is a very fickle, volatile thing. Time is more like a pool of water than a line, in fact. Two, everything happens for a reason, whether or not it is immediately obvious. Cause and effect governs the universe. Everything is an effect, and everything is a cause. This also ultimately means that everything that happens is not necessarily good or bad, such as the Holocaust. In fact, in regards to time, there is no good or bad. Third, most people can not grasp this information themselves and would then make uninformed judgments.

Suffice to say, if military intelligence were to develop an actual time traveling machine, and that machine reached the public, it would be easy to say that timeline no longer exists, as the past was changed somehow leading to a different timeline (likely also leading to a lack of time traveling, just for ironical purposes).

Furthermore on this point, you are also assuming that humans are the ones who develop the time travel. Aliens are a possibility. However, that does not really apply all too well in this discussion.

Fifth:

Where the problem here is, is that this higher power would also have to be shackled by predetermined fate,

Not necessarily. You are assuming that time is an all-encompassing thing. If a higher power were capable of controlling it and, thus, lining a specific timeline where everything happens and can not be changed, then there is no reason to believe that time would control the higher power in such a manner.

If time is anything, it's a dimension. It is something that we can measure, though not typically in the way we measure length, width, and depth. However, contrary to the basic three dimensions that we see and control, we can not see and control time. We live inside time.

A higher power that could control time would probably just see time as another dimension that can be controlled of an object.

(We can't comprehend how this works because, in case you didn't notice, we aren't a higher power ourselves.)

And you see the flaw in this: its a never ending loop

The way you perceive it is a never-ending loop. You want time to be something infinite that can not be understood, so that's how you saw it.

Your turn.



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I lose

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it would not change our lives at all, it would just be a parallel universe, or what have you.

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Tl;dr.
Going to assume Maoi learned the word paradox today/yesterday.

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sexEboy69 wrote:

it would not change our lives at all, it would just be a parallel universe, or what have you.

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Time is just a concept made by man.

The only true way of time travel would be to reverse the flow of all types of biological and mechanical things to the point were the entire universe is going backwards.

If such a thing exists, it wouldn't be time travel. It would be called "Inverted Atom Flow."


But...... on Earth 616.

The law of physics are different. Time travel can occur because we are the size of ants compared to our giant dinosaur masters who rule the planet with an iron claw which they with their massive brains can outhink us and thus create a new parallel world which includes time travel. Oh and did I forget to mention that on this Earth the sky is pink and the clouds taste like cotton candy, their cows oink, and their pigs moo.

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JeebsLuvsPie wrote:

Time is just a concept made by man.

Only in the sense that length, width, and depth are just concepts developed by mankind.

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Time is slowed (almost to a stand still) in the vacuum of space at the speed in which light travels. That is all thank you.

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ok _________________________________________ Huckey168 (ffo): Your a idiot beyong all imagining.