lmfao what .........

yeah probably shouldn't have said "new" players what I'm saying is do you notice how there are like 4 people playing the server right now? that's the cause of having no hard level cap. the divide of casual and hardcore players is made terribly evident by removing the wlc

did the server start with 4 people playing? hell no, had waaay more

and thus we are back to my point

people who don't want a hard wlc just love getting stupid powerful and sitting on their cute lil thrones of power subjegating the 5 people who try and play casual but have no chance to keep up with the guys who play 24/7

by having a hard level cap that makes it more even for the casual and hardcore, THUS allowing more people to play late game without hating life

not to mention this hosting alone we had several people find ffo and start playing again even though it's dead because there is no wlc and everyone quit e_e

edit: I reread my post and realized I never even SAID new players. It was pretty damn obvious in my original post. I said "we need people to stick around late game" and I said "more players"

go ahead and rag on me for not "reading what I'm posting" but these people aren't reading BEFORE posting...

not to mention shane's post:

"A permanent WLC will in a way encourage people to eventually "finish" their character, and at that point there will be more interest in actually doing things other than the forever grind. That is why I want a WLC at 35 or 40. In fact, that will probably bring in more people."
BAAAASSICALY sums up my point entirely lmao I don't get it I'm just at a lost for words...

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reply to Cea:

You bring up a good point about a fast WLC. However, I think on the other hand if the WLC is fast enough then we won't have half of the people playing just humping it until it goes up again. Something like 3.5 where (as I understand it) there actually was a point around Level 40 where everything just stopped increasing for people, creating an artificial level cap. The issue this hosting was that people were able to easily reach the Level cap and max out all their important skills, which just left sitting around until the next Level cap increase where they only needed to get one or two profs.

Yeah, you're right, you didn't say new players. I don't think that changes my point though where I stated the only people who are going to play will primarily be people who have played for years already. A few new people did find the game somehow, but they did not stick around for various reasons, likely the lack of players. This kinda happened with the hosting before, too.

Again, I am for an actual Level cap. However, if we do not have one, my point is that I do not want to have to wait around for five months before we reach the super OP levels. I will be bored of FFO again before then.

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Yea that's all I been saying so what's the problem here lmao
I just want to point out that no level cap is horrible idea, for all the reasons we've just discussed as well as the living, barren proof of FFO right now! ;o

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Do you honestly think a level cap will stop the hardcore players from having a significant advantage?

Honestly, do you?

The hardcore vs casual can never be balanced, hardcore players will ALWAYS have stronger characters and nolife the game for the best items and find the most abusable **** in the game, while the casual player getss screwed over in that aspect

You can't put a lvl cap on as a bandage and go "its fair naow"

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Yes, I do. That's what a level cap does. It stops the hardcore players from advancing. What are they gonna do, break the cap? Ultimately they will always have an "advantage". The point is, do you want the advantage to be 40 levels and have the casuals quit or do you want it to be 10 profs and have the casuals still play?

If you go read my topic everyone ruined, I clearly laid out a formula which would result in tons of players being able to play post game without being chased off by one player with no life. There is no reason not to do it this way. The only reason not to do it this way would be if you WANT to play hardcore and chase off the player base and have 4 people playing post game with you. Which no one should ever want; there is no reason for it.

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Honestly hardcore players should always have the advantage in every game. They put the time in it so they should be able to reap the benefits. In a game like this it's difficult though because we can't have different brackets or protection against low level slaughtering. Oh well. Honestly small games like this that are heavily PvP based should just be like Proelium, if anything. There just isn't a decent way of making things well rounded

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Hazedreamfreysaraboy wrote:

Honestly hardcore players should always have the advantage in every game. They put the time in it so they should be able to reap the benefits. In a game like this it's difficult though because we can't have different brackets or protection against low level slaughtering. Oh well. Honestly small games like this that are heavily PvP based should just be like Proelium, if anything. There just isn't a decent way of making things well rounded

Agreed

Also, cea, profs aren't what seperates hardcore players and casual players, although they sometimes can be, hardcore players often have their hardcore little clique they hang with who then do the hardcore activities of dragons, garlands, and mass murder of casual players, this is where the seperation starts, 2 players of equal profs and level doesn't mean the hardcore one isn't gonna **** all over the casual as if they were 40 lvls higher, the hardcore and his clique will have the best dragon/gar whored items circulating around and usually using the most OP class, cause they gotta roll like that, using the most OP or broken skills and abusing any game mechanics they can that said casual player will not know of

The game will never have a balance of hardcore vs casual players, and it shouldn't be that way, as haze said, putting in more time and effort should reap better rewards, or we cud make everyone lvl 1 wit 10 hp and every attack doing 1 dmg no matter what and call it balanced, but it would be the stupidest boring game ever

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dude im not hardcore i casual and keep up fine.

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reply to ImNotEngma:

Do you know what the attack order is? The ability to abuse the attack order is extremely simple and easy for some of the "hardcore" players but most casual players do not even have an idea that it exists.

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Shane wrote:

reply to ImNotEngma:

Do you know what the attack order is? The ability to abuse the attack order is extremely simple and easy for some of the "hardcore" players but most casual players do not even have an idea that it exists.

I had taught him it a few weeks back, not sure if he remembers lol

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yeah front bottom is attack upper right hand corner u dont get meleed (if ur duo)

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i say casual but ive been playing for like 8-9 years and when i get on im hardcore at training.

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will people please stop typing hardcore.

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Why not make the Level cap an actively changing mechanic completely based apon how active the society is in general.

The more active players adding to this variable moreso the rest, and when that number starts to decline, the level cap ceases increasing.

Say the level cap starts at a really low number, maybe something like 15, and it takes presence of players to keep it increasing.

So when we do have that sudden decline in players, all of the older players don't continue to create a gap beteen them and new players because that's the leading cause in inactivity in the FFO community. Even for some of the older players, its a turn off to play a game here it'd honestly take them months just to be on par with the rest of the community whilist those oldbies still get stronger in the mean time.

Also, Hi FFO.


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reply to sexEboy69:

Why yes, thank you for your excellent and constructive contribution to this discussion. As for me, I am all for having a level cap again. Cea is right in what he said about it 'stopping' the hardcore players from having absurd level advantages, and now the advantages will have to be more prof-and-skill-related.

So from what I gather, considering all of the suggestions and the responses to them, as well as discussions with some other players, that this is what we've got so far:

level cap (30?)
leveling up is easier/takes less prof (20-15% decrease?)
proffing requires more xp (10-25% increase?)
army is weaker yet also cheaper
repairs are cheaper
make weapon skills not count towards prof reqs (at the very least for mages)

And some other suggestions which are not as important as those mentioned above nor as crucial for the pwipe but still deserve at least some discussion over:

fix refresh/Red Wizards in general
fix the Mug Bug _{^{(for those who don't know it, when you are attacking with your first weapon while using Mug, if you try to do a different command like walking or clicking another enemy, it cancels the second attack. Normal attacks will continue to attack, however)}}
Make T3s easier to prof
Increase the prof requirement(s) for Citizen

Discuss. I'd like it if we had some clear ideas as to what everyone wants and what should be changed for the better.


EDIT: Hi Marcus. Didn't see your post due to me typing mine up.

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Marcus wrote:

Why not make the Level cap an actively changing mechanic completely based apon how active the society is in general.

This sounds like an increasingly complex and arbitrary method to solve an issue that already has a simple solution of just having a hard, base level cap of 35 or 40.

Dr. Letha wrote:

reply to sexEboy69:

level cap (30?)
leveling up is easier/takes less prof (20-15% decrease?)

I think a level cap of 35 or 40 would be more beneficial. I think leveling up is fine for the most part except in regard to mages, which as I have suggested, just make it easier for them to prof but lower the gains per prof they get, with a blanket magic boost overall.

proffing requires more xp (10-25% increase?)

I thought we removed EXP from the game.

make weapon skills not count towards prof reqs (at the very least for mages)

I disagree with this. It brings an important part of deciding how to design a character - using weapons that have more benefits, especially knives or blunts with their skills, you should have to prioritize if you want faster levels or to be able to use the weapon.

fix the Mug Bug

Gaku already attempted to fix this and said he could not reproduce it. Rather than whining about it constantly in non-bug-report topics, could you, like, make a bug report topic? :|

Make T3s easier to prof

I only agree to this by proxy of having each individual square of splash that hits a monster (square, so that the use of flying mobs may not be abused) uses allowance and puts EXP into the skill.

Discuss.

No. I will not. Oh wait, I guess I did.

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By xp I mean the xp that is put into profs by using allowance.

As for the Mug Bug, yes, I know he found it unable to reproduce. Then I found the real cause, and showed Gaku, and he said that it was not worth fixing in FFO. HOWEVER, now that we are going through another 'final' pwipe, I suggest that it be fixed so that all micromanaging ninja can rejoice.

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reply to Dr. Letha:
you're welcome.


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put in new maps

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WLC: 30-35.

Anyone been playing DC Universe Online?

I never played another MMORPG before except this one and there is a trend when it comes to online games. I've come to realize that in my quest to balance casual and hardcore players and gaps in power in FFO is futile process in the fact that people who spend more time in a game will/should gain better advantages than players who spend less time in any given game.

A hard level cap is required for all online RPG's. There is a rate of progression that needs to be considered when you compare the type of community a game has. FFO is a small nit community group of people of around 200+. I would love to actually see the stats of people this server aka poll style to see what is what.

High level content (domain seiges, ancient raids, domain owning, garland grinding, dragon farming), vs lowbie-midbie content (newbie questing, water templing, champ grinding).

I think the time to reach high level content takes too long. If need be there should be a level cap of 30 but no initial player cap. This way people's goal is to reach level 30 quickly if they'd like so that they can start to participate in the better end game content.

If you are a hardcore player you could reach the level cap in a week, then the rest of your time can be spent on obtaining gear, and fighting in wars if you'd like to focus on the domain aspect of FFO.

Casual players can hit this milestone in 2-3 weeks but they won't feel pressured to keep up in levels and it will keep a steady base of players at the same level. The gap then comes from the gear you raid for, domains that are taken by location/terrirory, and the different groups/clans/guilds.



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