Actually Haze, I'd been putting good points up for the entirety of this topic, which got attacked with the usual insult of 'You don't understand blah blah, if you weren't so dumb you'd agree, blah blah blah.'

There comes a point where even my patience has had it, and it seems to me that I'm not the only one whose had it with this pair.

Let's just state it like this, very simply.

You two will NEVER been Admins again. Not in a million years. Be normal players and be happy with it, or get lost. Really as long as you stop doing this every time an admin comes under fire I don't care which.

EDIT: Who are you calling a kid, by the way? Just curious.

_________________________________________

Lumino = 1 Cea = 0? _________________________________________ sub0flame (12:58:03 AM): do you love me gaku? sub0flame (12:58:07 AM): like a man loves a woman? sub0flame (12:58:10 AM): or a man loves a man? sub0flame (12:58:14 AM): or a man loves his dog? sub0flame (12:58:16 AM): or a man loves his car? sub0flame (12:58:17 AM): or his house? Gakumerasara (12:58:20 AM): nothing can stand in the way of our bromance Sam0Ayam (9:57:14 PM): how the aff did you know that? Sam0Ayam (9:57:20 PM): I mean, YOU of all people

It's not about points or what have you Solus. In any event, and a slightly serious note. A discussion in vent revealed something odd. Out of all the names thrown around for a potential admin, I only saw two that nobody had anything bad to say about.

Enn and Deshawn.

Just thought I'd say that.

_________________________________________

_________________________________________

Cea wrote:

Why yes, a rotting mango -would- be a better admin than you.

_________________________________________

Lumino wrote:

It's not about points or what have you Solus. In any event, and a slightly serious note. A discussion in vent revealed something odd. Out of all the names thrown around for a potential admin, I only saw two that nobody had anything bad to say about.

Enn and Deshawn.

Just thought I'd say that.

Deshawn is probably one of the most level-headed people in the community. Enn I don't really know personally.

Moreover, I nominate Letto for admin.

_________________________________________

Well, Lumino, the good thing is that Gaku can see through their bullshit, so they'll never be admins again unless I go through the trouble of getting his permission and decide to appoint one of them.

Theres no bother in arguing with them, it just goes round and round and round. I bet they'll say that's what I'm doing, too.

_________________________________________

Because everyone who has the balls to actually oppose a super caped player and the intelligence to get it done (EG: Letto always had the will, but never the intelligence to do it right.) doesn't play anymore.

I guess that is a victory by forfeit?

_________________________________________

If the community doesn't buy into his shit anymore then explain why he is in COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE GAME.

Cea's really smart. Also, the one group capable of opposing him quit, and then they boycott FFO, so I guess now they really quit.

Theres honestly not enough players who play that aren't his allies to fight back, and even if they did, they're like not as good at the game as Cea, Sinsie, Gene, Haze, Zekion, etc

Really, have you ever seen those guys lose?

_________________________________________

Reading that list made me sad. I used to get along so well with Gene. Hmm, I wonder if that is savable at all, ah well, irrelevant.

But yeah, they are quite good at the game. The GBP squad was really the only crew that could stand up to them in a full on fight, and they all stopped playing and moved on. So what can be done?

Not much, I'll say that. The remaining players are either unmotivated to rebel (Deshawn) or not skilled enough to accomplish anything (Aries).

_________________________________________

Many of you seem to think I have a "jaded oldbie" attitude. This post is not to argue, but to be honest, those saying it really have no right.


At around this time we see Kaji using boot to save her parties from PvP... But regardless, we stayed strong. We had GH watching over us and none of you newfags know much about GH but to say he stood on Moral High Ground is an understatement


Ahem, jaded oldbie says what?

If you have the right to call them newfags, they have the right to call you a jaded oldbie.

You're still using that jaded oldbie attitude Cea.

_________________________________________

Calling him a jaded oldbie is different than calling other people newfags. Calling them newfags in that context just meant that they were not informed enough to know the person in the conversation.

_________________________________________

Lumino wrote:

Reading that list made me sad. I used to get along so well with Gene. Hmm, I wonder if that is savable at all, ah well, irrelevant.

But yeah, they are quite good at the game. The GBP squad was really the only crew that could stand up to them in a full on fight, and they all stopped playing and moved on. So what can be done?

Not much, I'll say that. The remaining players are either unmotivated to rebel (Deshawn) or not skilled enough to accomplish anything (Aries).

Deshawn likes me. If he ever gets a problem with me he's just going to talk to me, like he has before.

He's pretty cool like that.

_________________________________________

"Well where are your sheep now? The community doesn't buy into your crap, we haven't for a long time."

Do you even know how many people I never talk to have asked me to be admin again? I didn't consider it until after I even got PMed about it. The whole reason all these angry posts and argument-pushing came about is because a ton of people got upset with Locke not being a consistent-enough admin (if you don't ignore my posts because they're just by me and read that log I posted, I doubt you'd be supporting Locke as admin).

The whole reason I posted yesterday that the rest of the community should start posting is because of posts like Zekion's and Stat's. They don't care about the crap-spewing and just get straight to the point. Instead of taking sides against the people you don't like, this topic's about fixing things.

I left admin before because I didn't think the community appreciated all admins did for them to keep everything together. All this started because they DO realize that and I'm actually happy people have told me so. Cea's not power-hungry either; he just wants to prove himself to people. Of course he's going to get upset with everyone posting lies about him or accusing him of thinking he's better than everyone. If he thought he was better than everyone, he wouldn't be working so hard for everyone in the first place.

Hell the guy respects everyone as an enemy at the very least and it's always annoying how he treats every enemy that isn't a newbie as a possible threat. The guys we PK should feel honored he even cares that much; I don't pay attention to enemies at all and forget half your names (I'm a cat).

That last part isn't really relevant to this topic but someone has to point out that Cea probably respects you guys a lot more than you to him. And once again, the topic's about just getting good admins on. My entire point with Locke is that he isn't fit to do his job which is the only reason I want him removed. If people are really going to fight about me and Cea, at least consider LP as a good choice, since something has to change or else the same problem will repeat over and over again until it DOES get changed.

_________________________________________

Ah, but here's the $1,000,000 question, and if either of you can answer this without trolling or flaming, I'll reneg:

Have you ever considered(and can you prove elsewise?) that the problem exists only to your little clique?

_________________________________________

Garr wrote:

Ah, but here's the $1,000,000 question, and if either of you can answer this without trolling or flaming, I'll reneg:

Have you ever considered(and can you prove elsewise?) that the problem exists only to your little clique?

I had Cea explain your post to me and I'm still confused. We didn't start this mess against Locke, I even started saying everyone should calm down against Locke, until I realized he was doing things the wrong way. I didn't log on other people's accounts and message myself, or make posts on these forums about how me and Cea should be admins again. I want to be admin because other people are seeing how things worked before. The problem can't just exist in only our eyes because of all the other people noticing it too. See the "Boycott" topic for a list of people. Of course not every single one volunteered for that since I've seen people login the game later and stuff, but it turns out a lot did say they were in agreement with the cause.

I know my log before was pretty long, but even if I do dislike posting with you, you are actually logical (if you were against me you'd still be logical about it, which I should keep in mind).

So please look at these certain points I paste from that long log and see whether or not you see the problems in Locke that I see:

Sinsie says (8:55 PM):
so what, now you're saying you did exactly what Emma did?
Sinsie says (8:55 PM):
You knew about it but did nothing?
Locke says (8:56 PM):
Why don't you read the topic...
Sinsie says (8:56 PM):
I did. You're accusing all this stuff but haven't said anything
Locke says (8:56 PM):
I posted again.
Sinsie says (8:56 PM):
your word against mine?
Sinsie says (8:56 PM):
so me trying to find facts versus you saying stuff?
Locke says (8:56 PM):
Its kind of cute how you guys try this every time anything happens.
Locke says (8:57 PM):
Why don't you read the entire post before you say anything...
Sinsie says (8:57 PM):
It's cute looking up old facts on forums...
Sinsie says (8:57 PM):
Let's see, you guys and the most powerful group of individuals in the game were allies, and I saw you were getting away with things.
Sinsie says (8:57 PM):
What things
Locke says (8:57 PM):
I guess, I could do that too, but I know that nobody who wants you as an admin is going to listen, so why bother? Your 'facts' don't even make sense.
Locke says (8:58 PM):
Uh I don't know, maybe the stuff I and Kumog listed in our previous posts.
Sinsie says (8:58 PM):
WHAT
Locke says (8:58 PM):
Really do you just block things out of memory to try to validate yourself, or what?
Sinsie says (8:58 PM):
you dont' LIST anything
Sinsie says (8:58 PM):
nothing specific
Sinsie says (8:58 PM):
that's what I"m asking
Sinsie says (8:58 PM):
can you do that?
Locke says (8:58 PM):
I can't remember specific instances, as I mentioned in the topic exactly.
Sinsie says (8:58 PM):
then how do you even know it happend?
Sinsie says (8:58 PM):
you're not even being vague, can you see why I can't understand?
Sinsie says (8:59 PM):
you're giving me nothing
Locke says (8:59 PM):
Just because I can't construct a specific instance in my head and put it into words doesn't mean I don't remember it.
Sinsie says (8:59 PM):
so, I did something, but you don't know
Sinsie says (8:59 PM):
and you're stating it
Locke says (8:59 PM):
No, I do, I just can't put it into words exactly, so I'm not going to try. I can't remember the specific people it concerned, or when exactly it happened, but I can remember it happening.
Sinsie says (9:00 PM):
"you guys just post the same stuff over and over"
Sinsie says (9:00 PM):
that's what you're doing to me right now

That was just asking Locke to say what I did which was so abusive, for him to justify his claims. He didn't at all. Is this a problem only I can see?

I hope this next part doesn't force me to make two posts since the pastes are pretty long, this is about doing the job:

_________________________________________

Yeah this has to be two posts but I'll finish quickly after:

Sinsie says (9:08 PM):
dude, you're a liar
Sinsie says (9:08 PM):
you said on the forums
Sinsie says (9:08 PM):
"I'd never let anyone hide behind development"
Locke says (9:08 PM):
Calling me a liar obviously means I am one. *rolls eyes*
Sinsie says (9:08 PM):
we told you before when attacking a domain
Sinsie says (9:09 PM):
"they're putting stone behind the wooden gates Locke!"
Sinsie says (9:09 PM):
"they're in development
Sinsie says (9:09 PM):
So because of that, you wouldn't do anything about them abusing that glitch
Locke says (9:10 PM):
So one time? You guys didn't explain it at all. You could have bug reported it, but you didn't. You also just assumed they were purposely abusing it, when we really had no basis for saying that. Because they're your enemies and I was on your side, you just expected to pull a couple of strings and I'd do what you wanted.
Locke says (9:10 PM):
Unlike you guys, I'm fair. Even though I didn't like either of them, I wasn't going to punish them for something they probably weren't even aware of.
Sinsie says (9:11 PM):
YOu didn't look into it, you said they're on development, Gaku wouldn't let them get banned
Sinsie says (9:11 PM):
Didn't explain it? You responded pretty clearly
Sinsie says (9:12 PM):
Bug reported? Is there even on on these forums?
Sinsie says (9:12 PM):
Fair
Sinsie says (9:12 PM):
you didn't LOOK into it
Sinsie says (9:12 PM):
you didn't care
Locke says (9:12 PM):
You don't know where the bug report forum is on the Terulia forums?
Locke says (9:12 PM):
I did, what was I supposed to do? How could I look into it? What, talk to them?
Sinsie says (9:12 PM):
Terulia. Pretty sure Gaku said no more for FFO as it was a done deal
Sinsie says (9:12 PM):
we tried doing bug reports before but were told that it's a no-go for FFO now
Sinsie says (9:13 PM):
No you didn't
Locke says (9:13 PM):
http://www.terulia.com/?f=gaku&s=8
Locke says (9:13 PM):
I worked that wrong, I didn't look into it because there was nothing to look into. No logs or anything could prove it, it was their word against yours.
Locke says (9:13 PM):
*worded
Sinsie says (9:14 PM):
You could've WENT THERE AND LOOKED
Locke says (9:14 PM):
I saw they were doing it, but I wasn't aware it was a bug and neither was anyone else.
Sinsie says (9:14 PM):
when we kill the gate ten times over and it doesn't get destroyed, and stones are only underneath the gate, it's pretty clear
Sinsie says (9:14 PM):
we told you
Sinsie says (9:14 PM):
it was a bug
Locke says (9:15 PM):
I was in vent with them, you guys thought you were killing the army for half that fight and you only got a couple of units at the very beginning, why would I think anything else you told me is true? Frankly, why would I just believe something you tell me?
Sinsie says (9:15 PM):
so you're saying that, our report wasn't good enough for you to do your job
Sinsie says (9:16 PM):
when people told me stuff, I looked into it
Sinsie says (9:16 PM):
I didn't take their word to ban people, I took their word to look
Locke says (9:16 PM):
Right; there was nothing to look into. Its a pretty cut and dried situation, don't try to make it look bigger than it is.
Locke says (9:16 PM):
Like I said, it was your word against yours.
Locke says (9:16 PM):
So tell me
Sinsie says (9:16 PM):
You know what I could do without all those fancy powers? Walk up to the domain, say it's official admin business, and ask them to open their wooden gate
Locke says (9:16 PM):
if you were in my shoes
Locke says (9:16 PM):
what would you have done?
Sinsie says (9:16 PM):
how lucky, I just did
Locke says (9:17 PM):
Ok, so you can see the stone under the gate. Kind of funny that I already addressed this when I said nobody knew if it was a bug or not.
Locke says (9:17 PM):
So what would you do after that?
Locke says (9:17 PM):
How could you determine anything from that?
Sinsie says (9:17 PM):
test it
Sinsie says (9:17 PM):
I know I'm a brilliant genius but
Locke says (9:17 PM):
Sure I had time to test it when you were in the middle of attacking it.
Sinsie says (9:17 PM):
actually yeah
Sinsie says (9:17 PM):
you could've said what you were doing
Sinsie says (9:17 PM):
then made us do stuff
Sinsie says (9:17 PM):
why not?
Sinsie says (9:18 PM):
why is being admin so hard for you?
Locke says (9:18 PM):
Why not? Well, first of all, you guys and half the community would rage that I stopped a pvp fight to investigate a bug that the attackers said existed.
Sinsie says (9:18 PM):
and so easy for me?
Sinsie says (9:18 PM):
We ASKED you to
Locke says (9:18 PM):


_________________________________________

Probably because you just want it for the power, and don't know how to do your job, and aren't fair, whereas I am.
Sinsie says (9:18 PM):
why are you so against doing your job in this scanario?
Sinsie says (9:18 PM):
what
Locke says (9:18 PM):
I'm not, why are you acting like I am?
Sinsie says (9:19 PM):
you're accusing me of that on what grounds
Locke says (9:19 PM):
I'm explaining to you why I couldn't have done anything.
Sinsie says (9:19 PM):
I just told you clear as day how you could
Sinsie says (9:19 PM):
you just don't know HOW to do your own job
Sinsie says (9:19 PM):
this proves it
Locke says (9:19 PM):
Why don't you read the topic where I gave you my reasonsing for that.
Locke says (9:19 PM):
Oh, really now? Here you go again, saying "this proves it" to try to validate your point of view with no real support.
Sinsie says (9:19 PM):
.... holy shit
Sinsie says (9:19 PM):
it's right there I don't know what else to do Locke...
Sinsie says (9:20 PM):
I just explained it all
Sinsie says (9:20 PM):
honestly are you just doing this to me for fun
Sinsie says (9:20 PM):
scroll up, I just solved the situation...
Locke says (9:20 PM):
You obviously don't know how to explain things then, or maybe its that you just don't understand that you're wrong.
Locke says (9:20 PM):
For fun? No, I want a stable community as much as you claim to.
Sinsie says (9:20 PM):
No you don't.
Sinsie says (9:20 PM):
You punished people for pissing you off
Sinsie says (9:20 PM):
and used admin to escape them

I suck that was still three posts.

In your opinion, Garral, did I not explain how to resolve the situation, and also did Locke show that he knew what to do? Or was I wrong, and Locke really couldn't have done anything and what's obvious to me is actually wrong somehow. If I am, please explain to me where I made the error in judgment.

Yeah I know I was wrong about the bug report forum. That's a big "you're so stupid" moment for me. Please don't bring that up for me to remember again. :p

_________________________________________

Lumino wrote:

Reading that list made me sad. I used to get along so well with Gene. Hmm, I wonder if that is savable at all, ah well, irrelevant.

But yeah, they are quite good at the game. The GBP squad was really the only crew that could stand up to them in a full on fight, and they all stopped playing and moved on. So what can be done?

Not much, I'll say that. The remaining players are either unmotivated to rebel (Deshawn) or not skilled enough to accomplish anything (Aries).

Aww shucks that darn gene thinks cea is an pretty cool guy I GUESS WE CANT BE FRIENDS ANYMORE!!!!

And you call these folks juvenile...


Oh also

Sinsie says (9:08 PM):
dude, you're a liar
Sinsie says (9:08 PM):
you said on the forums
Sinsie says (9:08 PM):
"I'd never let anyone hide behind development"
Locke says (9:08 PM):
Calling me a liar obviously means I am one. *rolls eyes*
Sinsie says (9:08 PM):
we told you before when attacking a domain
Sinsie says (9:09 PM):
"they're putting stone behind the wooden gates Locke!"
Sinsie says (9:09 PM):
"they're in development
Sinsie says (9:09 PM):
So because of that, you wouldn't do anything about them abusing that glitch
Locke says (9:10 PM):
So one time? You guys didn't explain it at all. You could have bug reported it, but you didn't. You also just assumed they were purposely abusing it, when we really had no basis for saying that. Because they're your enemies and I was on your side, you just expected to pull a couple of strings and I'd do what you wanted.
Locke says (9:10 PM):
Unlike you guys, I'm fair. Even though I didn't like either of them, I wasn't going to punish them for something they probably weren't even aware of.
Sinsie says (9:11 PM):
YOu didn't look into it, you said they're on development, Gaku wouldn't let them get banned
Sinsie says (9:11 PM):
Didn't explain it? You responded pretty clearly
Sinsie says (9:12 PM):
Bug reported? Is there even on on these forums?

Hey lokku remember this one?

"Yes dean IS being a super shitbrick troll right now and I do want to ban him, gaku already told me that he didn't like what dean was doing and greenlighted me to ban him, but I wont because he's in development and I don't want to slow work on Terulia".

Man you'll probably deny this now and I really wish I woulda saved the log but I didn't know then what I know now. We are most muchly not pleased with your job performance good sir, and we has many the valid reason for it.

_________________________________________

Sinsie wrote:

In your opinion, Garral, did I not explain how to resolve the situation, and also did Locke show that he knew what to do? Or was I wrong, and Locke really couldn't have done anything and what's obvious to me is actually wrong somehow. If I am, please explain to me where I made the error in judgment.

Yeah I know I was wrong about the bug report forum. That's a big "you're so stupid" moment for me. Please don't bring that up for me to remember again. :p

In my opinion, it looks like you two simply had a difference of opinion and failed to consider each others' points of view. It really does seem to me like there, both of those actions were the proper thing to do based entirely on what the person in question knows.

Here is what I got out of it:
Locke - Knew the people in question were developers, did not know the bug status of the mechanic in question, elected to keep an eye on them.

Sinsie - Did not know they were developers, but knew the mechanic in question was actually a bug, electing to investigate.

Neither of you did it wrong, it's a point of view matter.

And as for that log, it doesn't really prove much other than you and Locke squabble a lot.

http://pastebin.ca will help in the future, by the way.

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