Dr. Letha wrote:

reply to Mint:

Why would I go halfway across the world when Lowlands is cheaper, quicker, and easier to solo in?

because vorg is great and diverse and is just as great as ire, or so you guys say.
(and with the ninja speed buff it isnt that much of a walk. it wasnt even THAT painful on mint or arc last hosting)

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I'd also like to add that the linear one way design of Irendi means you can trap any party that comes up through ice caves between mobs and players basically letting you control the continent, where as even owning a domain on vorgardia doesn't mean anything as it's so open any decent ninja can outrun anything other than being blocked off at docks but even irendi has the upper hand there with its two tile bridge.

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Rell you might want to stop, when even mint realizes the flaw in your logic, and that's mint

The thing about vorg, is its appeal is a single necklace(only lately have stone charms been sought after, and even then nowhere near as much)

And rell couldn't have made vorg sound any more unappealing, who wants to do vorg when lowlands are cheaper and easier? And yeild great drops too!

Tairn recently stumbled upon a champ thunderpede, which are pretty high value, and stole a fine conjuror tunic and some viking gloves, a champion from wt, scorps or snasps, can even give higher value, the point is vorgardia costs a lot more to train in, because the mobs hurt much harder and do more gear damage, while holding values lower than even lowlands, which as rell said, is cheaper and easier to solo in

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reply to MaoiYaoi:

My point was that I see no need in running across the world to train in Vorg when Lowlands exists. You don't see Momoko in Diadel ignoring every other training area and exclusively training in Sewers/Forest, do you? It's my personal preference to train somewhere closer than further, and I'm allowed to say as such.

Vorgardia's only appeal is not Strung Pincers. Look at Ruins. Look at Earth Elemental caves. Look at Evilmen, hell, all of Ruins Floor 3 and down. Look at northern Vorgardia for lower-leveled characters. Look at half the night plains spawns.

Both continents have their strengths and weaknesses. You only seem to care about Irendi's strengths while overlooking Vorgardia's strengths solely because I flesh out Irendi's strengths a bit more than most other Irendians. Were you all living in Irendi Guardhouse and Shyron, you'd all be complaining about Vorgardia having massive advantages over Irendi in terms of accessability, Sankora being stupidly useful now that the mountain is gone, and the sheer amount of the nighttime champs that have higher values (which make the two-three worthwhile Irendi champs pale in comparison as a result of how common the Vorg ones are).


On a side note, I've noticed that Irendi is more suited for Mages and Wizards, while Vorgardia is more suited for melee classes. Aren't you all like, Red Wizards or something?

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Dr. Letha wrote:

reply to MaoiYaoi:

My point was that I see no need in running across the world to train in Vorg when Lowlands exists. You don't see Momoko in Diadel ignoring every other training area and exclusively training in Sewers/Forest, do you? It's my personal preference to train somewhere closer than further, and I'm allowed to say as such.

Vorgardia's only appeal is not Strung Pincers. Look at Ruins. Look at Earth Elemental caves. Look at Evilmen, hell, all of Ruins Floor 3 and down. Look at northern Vorgardia for lower-leveled characters. Look at half the night plains spawns.

Both continents have their strengths and weaknesses. You only seem to care about Irendi's strengths while overlooking Vorgardia's strengths solely because I flesh out Irendi's strengths a bit more than most other Irendians. Were you all living in Irendi Guardhouse and Shyron, you'd all be complaining about Vorgardia having massive advantages over Irendi in terms of accessability, Sankora being stupidly useful now that the mountain is gone, and the sheer value of the nighttime champs that have higher values (which make the two-three worthwhile Irendi champs pale in comparison as a result of how common the Vorg ones are).


On a side note, I've noticed that Irendi is more suited for Mages and Wizards, while Vorgardia is more suited for melee classes. Aren't you all like, Red Wizards or something?

arent you a ninja that prefs ire tho? clearly ire is accessible to both but vorg is accessible only to melees

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reply to Mint:

Like I said, I'm allowed to have my own personal preferences. It's just something I've noticed about the continents themselves over the years.

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reply to Dr. Letha:

People still do Water Temple floor 1 and 2 ignoring ruins because its not worth the hassle by comparison. Also North Vorg for lower level chars? Hell no. Argo's way better for that by far. Earth Elementals don't exist. Night plain spawns are only comparable to what Irendi has and can control 100% for themselves and noone else unless you "Fight through" (As you always say in domain)

Only real pattern here is Evilmen being brought up. And you need to go through ruins to get to them and even then it's not like we can lure them like you can Champ Snowmen and they sure as hell don't make up for the continent when you can get the same as we do alot easier for all but necklaces.

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Nerserus2 wrote:

You can hardly say that an entire continent's usage amounting to two necklaces is fair. And just "comparing" to champion snowmen is hardly fair either because that doesn't make up for anything. And it's not like plains are a walk in the park anyway, even with standard stone charms you'll easily get hit for 100 each from everything there and blind spammed.

I don't think I said that an entire continent usage amounting to two necklaces is fair. I did, however, bring up retorts to everything that people have listed as to why Irendi is such a better domain.

Here, let me break it down in a list as to "good drops" between continents and values placed in terms of the duration of the pwipe.

!!!Early-Mid Game!!!
Irendi: Shroomas
Vorgardia: Antlions, Stone Golems

!!!Mid-Late Game!!!
Irendi: Champion Snowmen
Vorgardia: Champion Bulls, Champion Evil Men

!!!Super-Late Game!!!
Irendi: Frost Dragons, Ember Wyrms
Vorgardia: Dark Dragons

Vorgardia is very, very heavily built as a continent meant to be immediately after Argo. As a result, it's value is more definite in the earlier and middle game stages. The mobs scale so linearly that any melee with a stock of Lettuce and a Locust weapon is set for life there.

Irendi, on the other hand, is a ball-busting, ass-whooping frigid wasteland for those unprepared, and the enemies are accordingly difficult. Immediately off the boat, at night, will Dark 2 casters spawn. In the first successive area are a constant string of higher tier spellcasters and rather extreme levels of on-hit Poison.

Vorgardia is wide-open spaces, with much room for spreading, and wide battles. It's non-continuous, leaving much room for juking, but also leaves a much higher chance of getting far too overwhelmed.

Irendi is a linear path from one end to the other, with constricting passages throughout most of the way and only very few wide-open paths. It's very binary, which leaves for risk of getting trapped, but also greatly increases the ability to hole oneself up for swarms.

Vorgardia is a melee's dream.

Irendi is a mage's dream.

When 90% of the playerbase are Red Wizards, yeah, Irendi seems to be a bit tilted in value.

It's a higher risk, higher reward scenario. Sure, people in Irendi have a better chance of farming good drops, but, especially at lower levels, they'll have a hell of a time effectively training and farming those levels compared to people who live in Vorgardia.

So that whole potential issue of Irendi having the best end-game and thus whoever secures it first wins the game?

Yeah?

Just do your Vorgardia time and get your better training in and smash their faces and take Irendi from them before the end-game comes around.

(And might I also additionally point out that the only true benefit Irendi has drop-wise over Vorgardia is that there are dragon mobs that spawn throughout the entire FFO day cycle. The funny thing? Evil Men drop almost as good as dragons, if not better since their nerf, and they spawn both day and night too.)

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Dr. Letha wrote:

reply to Mint:

Like I said, I'm allowed to have my own personal preferences. It's just something I've noticed about the continents themselves over the years.

vicia and mint both had the same amount of success living in ire tho. there's good places for both melees and mages there but in vorg it's MELEES ONLY MAGES GET OUT making it even less wanted because everyone plays mages. and what are these strengths of vorg you keep talking about? the openess of vorg makes almost all the domains harder to defend than the ire domains, which isnt a pro. it's harder to camp the dock, it's melee exclusive, you cant cut off the training areas, the drops arent as nice, gee vorg sure is a nice place to live

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reply to Mint:

I'm personally in the camp of Vorgardia supremacy. The whole linear nature of Irendi works as both a defense and as a flaw. If your town in Irendi is actually successfully being sieged, where the **** do you run? Into your siegers arms or the stone wall behind you? Similarly, Vorgardia's open nature is both a flaw and an additional escape route.

Also, it's not melee exclusive. Desert is easily one of the most mage friendly areas in the game - at least, it would be if people didn't all pick Fire for Irendi or Earth for Sleep. It's also more Poison friendly compared to Irendi - there's like, what, four mobs that are affected by Poison in Irendi? Seriously? Edit: Oh, and also, EEs cave is definitely more caster friendly than melee friendly. Talk about a floor whose sole purpose is to punish being in melee range!

You can't cut off the training areas, but if people are training within close vincinity of your domain, that's a much easier trip for PKs.

Harder to defend than the Irendi domains? Half of them have very choke-pointed entrances. The other half only have two sides where you can realistically be sieged from. (People attacking Leam from the EE Cave side? Psh yeah right - stuck between a wall and a hard place sup sup).

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reply to Shane:

You can use Vorg if you have Irendi. You can only use Irendi if the owners of Irendi let you. The fact that there is so many chokepoints and bottlenecks in Irendi means that you can stop whoever you like.

You're talking like you can't go in Vorgardia if you own Irendi domains. Or even that anyone in Vorgardia can stop people coming in and using Antlions for example.

But if you say, have even just Tristram you can block Ice Caves. Good game.

You don't need to be super late game to do dragons. In fact if you ask me the only efficient way to do them now is to lure them and people are doing that already. Since luring dark dragons is pretty much impossible right now Irendi already has the edge a week or so into this wipe.

Shroomas didn't even use to be in irendi. But they're there now. Another point to Irendi...

And to be honest? All we really ask is that Embers get moved. I don't see why this is so hotly contested when Frost Dragons are easier to kill anyway and drop the same loot.




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Shane wrote:

reply to Mint:

I'm personally in the camp of Vorgardia supremacy. The whole linear nature of Irendi works as both a defense and as a flaw. If your town in Irendi is actually successfully being sieged, where the **** do you run? Into your siegers arms or the stone wall behind you? Similarly, Vorgardia's open nature is both a flaw and an additional escape route.

most people just relog, which is completely valid

Also, it's not melee exclusive. Desert is easily one of the most mage friendly areas in the game - at least, it would be if people didn't all pick Fire for Irendi or Earth for Sleep. It's also more Poison friendly compared to Irendi - there's like, what, four mobs that are affected by Poison in Irendi? Seriously? Edit: Oh, and also, EEs cave is definitely more caster friendly than melee friendly. Talk about a floor whose sole purpose is to punish being in melee range!

poison still doesnt work all that well when half the mobs res every ele. sure they dont absorb it but they still res it

You can't cut off the training areas, but if people are training within close vincinity of your domain, that's a much easier trip for PKs.

have fun finding them with scry being random!

Harder to defend than the Irendi domains? Half of them have very choke-pointed entrances. The other half only have two sides where you can realistically be sieged from. (People attacking Leam from the EE Cave side? Psh yeah right - stuck between a wall and a hard place sup sup).

most of vorg only has two sides, but ire-wise shy and igh with a hostile ic are the only ones with two sides, and shy's second side isnt a good place to siege from. army from two sides!? hard to run from?! sounds like my kinda spot to siege a domain!


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Nerserus2 wrote:

You don't need to be super late game to do dragons. In fact if you ask me the only efficient way to do them now is to lure them and people are doing that already. Since luring dark dragons is pretty much impossible right now Irendi already has the edge a week or so into this wipe.

I've yet to even see a Frost Dragon or Ember Wyrm this hosting. Please prove that this is happening.

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Dr. Letha wrote:

Nerserus2 wrote:

You don't need to be super late game to do dragons. In fact if you ask me the only efficient way to do them now is to lure them and people are doing that already. Since luring dark dragons is pretty much impossible right now Irendi already has the edge a week or so into this wipe.

I've yet to even see a Frost Dragon or Ember Wyrm this hosting. Please prove that this is happening.

Hearsay. But not impossible whether its true or not. In fact if I was in your shoes that'd be what I'd be doing, especially with ninja speed now.

Oh and also while we're at it, who's to say I meant you anyway?

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reply to Nerserus2:

You guys are acting like you can't go to Irendi if you live in Vorgardia.

Which honestly, no matter how hostile Irendi was to me, I've never felt any less safe there than if I lived in Irendi and Vorgardia was hostile to me and I went to Vorg.

A gank is a gank. Choke points will only really secure that the battle will end in much death. The openness of Vorgardia only really suggests that there is a chance of much escaping - on either side. The people ganking have an innate advantage, and really for purposes of turf fights, running someone off is just as good as PKing them.

And all you're asking for are Ember Wyrms in EEs? Why? They would then officially be the easiest to access Dragon, and the easiest to kite Dragon.

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Harder to take a dragon through Dwarf Caves than Dragon Den.

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i dont think ee is the best place for 'em but i do want vorg and ire to be on more even ground. time after time only people who want a safe place for newbs ever touch vorg

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i remember a hosting where permas around sank were fully ripe and as lord of sank i would run to docks and make 20k because i found 4 permas worth 5k. vorg and ire arent even or people wouldnt abandon it like that

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Mint wrote:

Shane wrote:

reply to Mint:

I'm personally in the camp of Vorgardia supremacy. The whole linear nature of Irendi works as both a defense and as a flaw. If your town in Irendi is actually successfully being sieged, where the **** do you run? Into your siegers arms or the stone wall behind you? Similarly, Vorgardia's open nature is both a flaw and an additional escape route.

most people just relog, which is completely valid

Relog? What if you want to try and carry some valuables outside of your Domain? Oh ****, there's that 5 item drop limit and 2k*level limit. Weeeelp. Hope you're absolutely certain your Domain can't be taken.

(Wasn't Tristram taken last hosting by Blax crew?)

Also, it's not melee exclusive. Desert is easily one of the most mage friendly areas in the game - at least, it would be if people didn't all pick Fire for Irendi or Earth for Sleep. It's also more Poison friendly compared to Irendi - there's like, what, four mobs that are affected by Poison in Irendi? Seriously? Edit: Oh, and also, EEs cave is definitely more caster friendly than melee friendly. Talk about a floor whose sole purpose is to punish being in melee range!

poison still doesnt work all that well when half the mobs res every ele. sure they dont absorb it but they still res it

?????

The combination of Air and Ice work on almost everything in Vorgardia quite well, and Water as a substitute for either of those is fairly solid.

Similarly, in Irendi, Fire, Ice, and Earth will cover most everything. (Makes me feel bad for Lit, but that's rather all-purpose).

You can't cut off the training areas, but if people are training within close vincinity of your domain, that's a much easier trip for PKs.

have fun finding them with scry being random!

And so you can absolutely necessarily find some people training in Irendi with Scry being random, too? I mean, I'm pretty sure that there isn't a huge siren that goes off when someone is training in your area, but I guess I could be mistaken! Stealth doesn't really exist in this game, huh!

Harder to defend than the Irendi domains? Half of them have very choke-pointed entrances. The other half only have two sides where you can realistically be sieged from. (People attacking Leam from the EE Cave side? Psh yeah right - stuck between a wall and a hard place sup sup).

most of vorg only has two sides, but ire-wise shy and igh with a hostile ic are the only ones with two sides, and shy's second side isnt a good place to siege from. army from two sides!? hard to run from?! sounds like my kinda spot to siege a domain!


It's still not really that huge of a difference, in that it's not much different from sieging any old domain with full stone walls. If anything, for this one, you should complain that Irendi has a full stock of mountain tiles but even then only GsH is screwed out in that regard - everywhere else has very nearby mining sources.

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Deshaun brought up a good point, the dwarf cave itself is hard to manouvere without that dragon going through walls and beating on you with the other mobs blocking from the other side, easy to access sure, easiest to kill? hell no.

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