Every time I get annoyed at some mechanic of the game, I am usually able to remind myself why it was added.

Deleveling sucks. But it was added to prevent level 13 Kamikaze Mages, same with Death Sickness.

Guards throwing me sucks. But it was added to stop Guard AI abuse.

Thirst sucks, but it was added to stop pot chugging.

For the life of me, I can't remember why Level Scaling was deemed needed for this game? Do we just not want people to solo ever?

I'll explain why I think this. Capped Knight, with some damn good gear, goes out of Vorg. I go into the Wildman cave and start to raid, first floor is no issue. Get to the second and, with fresh spawns, get swarmed by Scorps, Wildmen, and bombs. Poison ticks are bad enough (Usually hitting somewhere near 20 per tick at a single hit.) and I'm getting smacked by each monster for about 80-100 damage a shot. Even with my 1500+ HP, this is insane considering the numbers that spawn down there, I spend so much time trying to keep myself alive I can barely fight back, and if I back myself into a corner like I usually do in big fights.

Bombs fly over the walls, and then explode in huge chain reactions. I had a swarm of (And no this is not exagerated) close to fifteen bombs chasing me.

Now, would this have been an issue without level scaling? Yeah, it would have been damn hard. However, making all these normal monsters level 35 just seems like un needed aggravation. What is the point of this 'addition' to the game and what is the point of monsters always being your strength. There is no 'easy' place to train outside of NB, because everything else is your level.

If there was some important reason level scaling was added that I forgot, please feel free to remind me. But to me it seems like a pointless antagonist in an already difficult game.

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I think the main reason level scaling was added in was so there was no level progressive areas, which I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

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It was added because there shouldn't be a single "best" place to train.

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Then make multiple places with similar leveled monsters. And it wasn't bad before scaling. You still had desert, plains and Irendi parties all at the same time. Element choice/Class and personal preference determined what was a 'good' place for you.

I just don't see the point of this when every place in the game is the same thing. You guys wonder why all the stronger players keep raiding NB, because it's one of the only place you CAN raid without dying if you aren't a mage or using Tonfa AGI hax.


EDIT: I feel my first paragraph came out wrong, so allow me to reiterate what I meant.

Irendi Docks/Early Ice Caves= Desert Vorg
Lowlands and IGH Forest= Vorg Plains
Highlands=Leamaia Forest/Ruins (Floors one two and three.)
GsH Plains=Argo Water Temple

There already are multiple places in equivalent level/power ranges. Maybe not exactly, but depending on your element/class selection they are close enough.

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In all honesty, you can solo Vorgardia with the level scaling, with minor difficulty. Irendi on the other hand, seems rather impossible. I know you're trying to focus on getting players to party and such, Gaku, and trying to get rid of the whole schpeal of there being one "best" training area, but level scaling just doesn't seem to cut it. I know that this topic is in the FFO section of the forums, and I don't know how Terulia works right now, but if it's in the same manner as this...

And let's face it, you can't ignore updating FFO unless you completely take it down for good, considering there are still people playing it, that want more content and fixes to broken game mechanics. It just appears level scaling is way ahead of its time at the moment, and I think it should be removed for the time being until we can find a better way to go about using it. All level scaling is at the moment, is an inconvenience to the players.

EDIT:

Another alternative approach I thought up; increase the level up stat gains just a bit to help offset the current difficulty with the level scaling. I'd say a 5-10% increase in stat gains would work, just don't have it apply to monsters.

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Actually because of scaling there seems to be a single best place to train. In all the training parties excluding majors ones with large numbers and capped players, I have found that there is a best place to train. And sadly its Argo. If theres any question to why... Night plains run can be a death sentence, in most cases with a unprepared party it is. Same with Irendi. Desert is just a plain armor screw and not worth the exp after your expenses. But because the monsters scale in Argo, they give great amounts of exp and dont even require a WW to be in the party to pull -200k out of it with little armor damage, little thirst screw, and even a decent amount of gold. Somone correct me if I am wrong, but thats how I feel

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I'd actually say that's about right, Stat.

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A more reasonable solution would be to reduce the scaling.
Have you forgotten the times when "wahhh, we can't train at [insert favorite Dragon spawn area] because there aren't any left, so there's no point training anywhere."

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And why should changes made to the game cater to those people?

Back in 3.5?

Oh man, EEs are dead, let's go to ruins.

Ruins are dead too, let's go to the plains.

Those players who know how to really play the game will FIND a place to train, even if a few spots are dead. And the spawns recover pretty quickly in this game it would seem, so I don't think it is a very big deal.

Back to my first point: Why cater to the Dragon Power Levelers? If they only go trainning in one spot then I don't think they have played enough of the game to have any effect on how it changes.

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It shouldn't cater to these people.
The whole point of scaling is so Random Bob can train anywhere for reasonable gains instead of having to train at the "right" (read: only suitable) place at any given time.

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Dragon power leveling isnt possible now. Even with competent players its still a very very difficult challenge. Not saying it cant be done, but it no way is it possible to power level. Even if scaling is set down I dont see areas being "cleard" as you put it.

Since most are not able to even contest with dragons, or even getting to them without the help of well played ww's I dont see setting it down would hurt. Plus it may help the community when large parties are actually able to go do something like that making it so dragon parties arnt just a small group of trusted players, but possibly a bunch of people.

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The whole point of scaling is so Random Bob can train anywhere for reasonable gains instead of having to train at the "right" (read: only suitable) place at any given time.

The problem with this is that it isn't how the game has been for him.

You start on NI, and there is no level scaling. You work your way up, find weak monsters and move on to find stronger monsters in stronger areas. Newbies are a plenty, so partying isn't hard. Then he hits 'real' FFO, and suddenly parties are hard to find. Maybe people are on another continent that he can't get to, or don't want to drag around someone they don't know. Or nobody is on. So young Bob has to waste the little time he has to play the game by doing nothing, since soloing is impossible for him off of Newbie Island. The game is already set against the solo player, adding level scaling just means that this feeling of not being able to play because nobody is on never goes away. You never get strong enough to survive for yourself for more then a quick run unless you abuse multi tile monster choke points or are one of maybe 2 classes with the right equips.

And by 'Multi Tile Monster Choke Points' I don't mean strategic movement. I mean the areas like south Sankora, or by the rivers south of the ruins where Sarm used to solo by using his Whips to fight monsters that couldn't reach him but could still move.

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I'll have to agree with that, When the topic was created I signed on, I ran down to give him a hand in the caves. It was a little out of hand, The amount of spawns plus the level they are spawning at is just ungodly. Esp when they are fresh, and in most cases they usually are. Making a melee practically useless considering they are pot chugging just to stay alive, with the occasional sword swing. I think soloing should be hard but not impossible to the point that one death will erase everybit of exp you gained most your gold, and good luck getting your DC back.

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Another reason is this: if people who have a monopoly on the game are so inclined, they can prevent just about anyone from training anywhere reasonable.

If you're at FrDragons, it goes without saying you'll be packing Ice and Light gear, meaning some Blackwizard with tier-3 Fire spells will decimate your party in a few shots. While you're being raped by FrDragons spamming Ice and Light as well as an ungodly physical attack at that.

When EE's were all the rage, A single earth spell would heal me no problem, and if I had another earth ring, earth-based physical attacks would probably heal me, but if someone smacked me with a Wind spell to be a doche, game over.

Level scaling stamps this down, and keeps the game fair. I'm not a fan of being unable to solo, since I genuinely prefer soloing, but I'm also not a fan of some shitbrick declaring somewhere -his- training spot.

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That can happen no matter what. I dont feel scaling helps that at all. I run ruins trips all the time, wearing enough dark gear to cure me. If some jackass WW wanted to light 2 me it would most nearly one shot me. I dont see how that has to do with scaling. ESP since when IVPD was together they pretty much did that anyway. SO how does that have anything to do with monster scaling?....Fail?

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i did ruins without dark gear.

i also raided frds with deckard constantly.

oh and we're the only people to kill frost dragons since they could fly (baram enn xerzec deckard zen and i) that actually got exp for it

but HONESTLY, on the TOPIC---

more people will play the game if scaling is removed.

did anyone realize how many people disapear constantly becuase of issues that could be fixed without having scaling (not being allowed anywhere, not WANTING to go anywhere, not being ABLE to go anywhere...)

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Actually, a new thought just occurred to me.

I seem to recall the desire for the game was that we would have real PvP wars. Yet with the mini war we have partied with Sankorans all the time for trainning. Why is this?

Simple, because we have to. Because thanks to level scaling no matter how strong we get, we always need more people then the game has to offer us in just one town. It's a side effect of it, true, but it is still a direct consequence of the complete inability to effectively train solo/in small groups.

You need more people to have a decent trainning party, so you ask the people that are on, even if they are your enemies.

And the idea of domain wars goes right down the shitter.

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A topic nearly everyone agrees on.....I'm speechless

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The whole point of scaling is so Random Bob can train anywhere for reasonable gains instead of having to train at the "right" (read: only suitable) place at any given time.

Many people have addressed this, but I just want to add my two cents. Level scaling, above everything else in FFO, killed FFO. Its rather impossible and completely impractical to train alone now. So you say find a party? Well, there aren't always parties. When there aren't parties, people can't train. When people can't train, people get bored. When people get bored, they quit. When people quit, theres even less people to party with. When that happens, theres less parties. Its an endless cycle and its killing FFO.

Remove level scaling, and there will be far more new players who stick with the game. Having only one area to train in has never really been a problem. We still trained in the Plains when we could go to Irendi, we still trained in the desert even after being way too strong for it. Like Lumino or whoever it was said, make more than one area the same then. Make the Vorgardia plains equal to Irendi in exp. If they're not the same at first, balance them until they are. Level scaling, however, will not work. Newbies get off the boat and get massacred in Argo. They go to Vorg and unless they're a highly skilled player who knows exactly what they're doing-like Oondi-(which newbies don't), they're going to die. And then they're going to quit.

And that folks, is why FFO is dead. Not Dana and Cea, not thirst, not the community. Its level scaling. First and foremost.

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nab you act like thats an accomplishment lol. you could easily kill dragons while they fly. if you want to do it for serious exp, however, you're out of luck. meaning if you only spawn one or two at a time, of course you can kill them.

when we did dragons as a serious training spot we were constantly swarmed by 5+ dragons.

*gets told how they killed 10 flying dragons at once and BLAH BLAH BLAH*

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