Zasha wrote:

NolynnatrixLestrange wrote:

Zasha wrote:

reply to NolynnatrixLestrange: the only way a ww would ever be doing over 300 is if it was a circumstance like they were tempered, wearing a very high grade pincer and had an epic weapon, or if they were hitting a monster with an element that monster is weak against. Maybe a ww would be hitting another player for 300 if they had an imbue of an element the other player is very weak against, or if the other player is in very weak armor.

Sai with no temper, a Magnif. Doom Titanium Hammer[that shouldnt be in the game anyway], and a Perfect Strung Pincer should not be hitting a Red Wizard with High tier heavy gear for 300+. White Wizards should NOT be that offensive. The point of a White Wizard is to support your team mates with buffs and curing and esuna.

Which brings me back to a point I made a long time ago: Nerf Dark.

pfft lame topic

you're lame >;[

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make, he has a doom element on his epic hammer, players are weak to dark elements, 300 is actually surprising low under those circumstances. Proof that ww str is not too high, but he has a very nice weapon.

Which brings me back to what I suggested awhile ago: Nerf Dark

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reply to NolynnatrixLestrange:you can easily change your elemental balance so you aren't that weak to dark.



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Zasha wrote:

reply to NolynnatrixLestrange:you can easily change your elemental balance so you aren't that weak to dark.

And that's what we said about CL. It got nerfed too, and it was pretty much a one hitter spell. What's the difference about nerfing dark.

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reply to NolynnatrixLestrange: Chain lit was killing wyrms in 4 hits, HUGE difference.



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hi my name is po
with no elemental gear on i survive reap's d3 with about 30 some hp on my rw who has 705 hp

with no ele gear, any shitty bw with cl next to me can still insta-kill me

both spells are still really powerful, however im ok with cl since u have to be up close and personal

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Zasha wrote:

reply to NolynnatrixLestrange: Chain lit was killing wyrms in 4 hits, HUGE difference.

We were talking about PvP, but dragons are shitty. You all had pugs. While we were gone, most BWs got CL + Air like we had. Copyfags. But anyway, you had to be upclose and personal as Po said for CL and with what Dean had said before anyone who is silly enough to let a hostile BW get that close to them without thinking that they are going to do something to them is uh, 'silly'. With D3, you can cast off screen onto people who can get one shotted or pretty damn close to being 1 shotted. I have to wear 2 Tiger pieces just to prevent myself from being one shotted. Which EVEN THEN if I have the slightest amount of HP gone, even 50, I'll be an easy 1-shot kill anyway.

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reply to NolynnatrixLestrange:

tbh dark3 is only a threat to me when centered >.> but d3 has massive range, HOWEVER, i dont wanna see the dark spell itself nerfed, since its dmg is kinda mediocre and is my bws only way of training in wt/argo, however, lessen the natural weakness players have to darkness and it should work out fine, instead of dark doing what seem to be 2x normal dmg on players, i wud be fine with it doing 1.5x etc, idk the numbers tbh those are just my guesses

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Po wrote:

hi my name is po
with no elemental gear on i survive reap's d3 with about 30 some hp on my rw who has 705 hp

with no ele gear, any shitty bw with cl next to me can still insta-kill me

both spells are still really powerful, however im ok with cl since u have to be up close and personal

hi my name is dean. with a tier 4 dark piece (unholy) at fine and wearing full mage gear I've been one shotted by Reap's d3.
I've got 535 max hp.

Maybe mage gear could offer more mres based on your base mres stat this way it doesn't afford melee characters unfair amounts of magic resistance.

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Po wrote:

reply to NolynnatrixLestrange:

tbh dark3 is only a threat to me when centered >.> but d3 has massive range, HOWEVER, i dont wanna see the dark spell itself nerfed, since its dmg is kinda mediocre and is my bws only way of training in wt/argo, however, lessen the natural weakness players have to darkness and it should work out fine, instead of dark doing what seem to be 2x normal dmg on players, i wud be fine with it doing 1.5x etc, idk the numbers tbh those are just my guesses

Works too.

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Deancro Malfoy wrote:

Po wrote:

hi my name is po
with no elemental gear on i survive reap's d3 with about 30 some hp on my rw who has 705 hp

with no ele gear, any shitty bw with cl next to me can still insta-kill me

both spells are still really powerful, however im ok with cl since u have to be up close and personal

hi my name is dean. with a tier 4 dark piece (unholy) at fine and wearing full mage gear I've been one shotted by Reap's d3.
I've got 535 max hp.

Maybe mage gear could offer more mres based on your base mres stat this way it doesn't afford melee characters unfair amounts of magic resistance.

if i remember correctly on how marc was talking, im pretty sure he was saying that tier3's pierce more mdef then tier2's etc, awarding a percentage based mdef pierce at center for t3, t2 pierce at middle, and t1 pierce at end, or maybe im horribly recalling it

now the reason you were prolly 1-shotted if your low hp, i have NO dark gear, and wear a pure brace(not when pvping bws ofc) and you may have been d3 centered by reap with his wizard staff (which i havent been hit with yet, so i'm psure i'd get 1-shotted)

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Po wrote:

Deancro Malfoy wrote:

Po wrote:

hi my name is po
with no elemental gear on i survive reap's d3 with about 30 some hp on my rw who has 705 hp

with no ele gear, any shitty bw with cl next to me can still insta-kill me

both spells are still really powerful, however im ok with cl since u have to be up close and personal

hi my name is dean. with a tier 4 dark piece (unholy) at fine and wearing full mage gear I've been one shotted by Reap's d3.
I've got 535 max hp.

Maybe mage gear could offer more mres based on your base mres stat this way it doesn't afford melee characters unfair amounts of magic resistance.

if i remember correctly on how marc was talking, im pretty sure he was saying that tier3's pierce more mdef then tier2's etc, awarding a percentage based mdef pierce at center for t3, t2 pierce at middle, and t1 pierce at end, or maybe im horribly recalling it

now the reason you were prolly 1-shotted if your low hp, i have NO dark gear, and wear a pure brace(not when pvping bws ofc) and you may have been d3 centered by reap with his wizard staff (which i havent been hit with yet, so i'm psure i'd get 1-shotted)

Implying Marcus knows everything about the game. Last hosting, a BW with an unholy piece never was one shotted. Why should Dark be able to one shot people now?

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One shot kills are cheap (that means you chain-lit) regardless of distance. I would call d3 more problematic than chain-lit though since you have the benefit of range.

They shouldn't be in the game.

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neither should beefup

EDIT: Also, I think light armor's and stealth armor's defensive stats should be changed, seeing as light armor is pretty low defense, with just the dex bonus and moving while attacking bonus, and stealth armor gives you MORE DEFENSE than light, AND AGILITY, and AND THE ABILITY TO RUN AND ATTACK WITH BOW AND THROWN

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PcP wrote:

neither should beefup

EDIT: Also, I think light armor's and stealth armor's defensive stats should be changed, seeing as light armor is pretty low defense, with just the dex bonus and moving while attacking bonus, and stealth armor gives you MORE DEFENSE than light, AND AGILITY, and AND THE ABILITY TO RUN AND ATTACK WITH BOW AND THROWN

I agree with the point that stealth armor shouldn't give defensive bonus. I think being able to run with bow/thrown is fine though.

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Why would anyone ever seriously be arguing to try to boost WW strength? WW's only have a melee as a last resort, as in, no mana, no ethers, etc.

Its like hi my Knight's mana pool is too small, buff please.

I also don't understand how multiple status spells applying at once is a problem. It seems like, if you're affected with one that's too strong, then why would it matter if you get hit by another one? I think the problem lies more with how certain ones work, and I don't see a point to making it so more than one can't affect someone at once. Maybe theres a combo I'm not aware of.

As far as Dark goes, since every BW gets it, pretty much everyone has dark gear to nullify it, but if a BW is getting one shot under the conditions Dean described, then I agree that it should be nerfed. Wouldn't this also be fixed by a lower prof cap?

I think if a pwipe does happen, the main issue that needs to be dealt with is the prof cap. If it is reduced, magic and high-end equipment won't be such ridiculous issues, right?

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So here's me talking:

Higher-end equipment gives a LOT of stat points. Being able to reach high-level profs as well is obviously going to stack this to some unbalanced ends. I heard this version had a lower main level-cap to have more balance, so it's beyond me why anyone would have thought that low levels plus proffing like mad and getting sick equipment would ever be a good idea. Stop thinking Marcus is an expert on anything, I don't know how many times he has to prove he isn't publicly...

If there really does come a p-wipe, and people want to stick with low levels and have battles last longer, the items that drop have to have their quality lowered significantly to match this (I heard the quality was actually raised this version...) and prof caps can't be that high either. Which will most likely prevent some spells from being obtainable. Maybe it'll be better to test a low-level game that way?

Exp rate would have to be lowered if this were the case, unless you want everyone capping characters in nearly everything until almost everyone has each class at their disposal. I'm sure it'd feel lame if everyone had a healer or scryer or domain-burglar at the ready.

Concerning armor, the reason stealth and mage armor can make the other armors look like ass is because that was actually the original intention. It is weird, because you would think that the thief and mage classes wouldn't be nearly forced into using the better but way more expensive armors while the other classes aren't. I heard heavy armor had its defense boost taken away, so maybe it's the crappy cheap armor it was supposed to be again, giving light armor a purpose. I honestly can't say what's better when it comes to armor though. I still saw every type of armor being used when I played, and it was nice knowing you could switch to a cheap armor for training and keep your expensive armor for other events.

White wizard strength: we used to joke about knights losing to white wizards and how it just couldn't happen. If it is actually happening and not just by flukes or against crappy knights, it might be an issue. If nothing about white mage growth has changed, then the solution is probably just ensuring that uber gear and insane profs aren't possible to upset the balance anymore. I'm assuming that every class can abuse this to do game-breaking damage though.

If it's just white mages getting away with this then there's a chance something needs to be done about it.

Dark spell: I always wore my super-upgraded dark armor and as a result never had to worry about this. If I know someone has chain lit, or we're going to frost dragons, I prepare the appropriate gear. Again, I believe making the drops reduced to fit the new game-style will fix this issue. Profs too.


Simply put: if you want a low-level game, make the world low-level friendly and suitable. Don't make dragons (or anything else like permachests or spawn chests) able to drop moon staves or other gears with broken suffixes, everyone will just find some exploitative way to grind them and once again you'll have an annoying power-gap that causes people to complain because "the game's gay now".

Here's the truth: with less material power and stunted player potential, people will invest less time in making uber characters and will put more time in how they associate with others and more importantly, how to make their play time meaningful. In the past, this helped contribute to kingdoms and inspired people to be creative, rather than always creating parties to grind the same spots to get better characters so they can grind even better and get more etc.

Have the game force people to rely more on numbers, preparation, cunning, and charm, and you'll probably create a much better environment for gameplay than what you have on your hands now. People will play more similar to how they really feel, instead of following the same trend everyone else does. There will be more opportunity for surprising encounters, whether it be to friends or enemies. And possibly most important, it'll create a feeling in the game world that causes new or past players to get attached to the game and stay/contribute. Good night meow.

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A+ contribution, sir.

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Deancro Malfoy wrote:

A+ contribution, sir.

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Sinsie's post pretty much hit the nail on the head.

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To Po: Dark does 70% more to PC compared with a base elemental spell.

To dean about x-magic: When it was implemented I believe that every cast dealt from x-magic was Proff/2+25%. Now what does it do? Regular casting damage right?

I mentioned how certain items should have been removed at the start this hosting. The main one was about staves and how anything above "Power" should be removed or at least the magical values lowered. Yay for foreshadowing.

Do you guys see any other WW other than Sai and his uber hammer doing crazy damage in PvP? No. So the problem lies in the gear people get. I'm just agreeing with Sinsie on his post really.

Back on topic. I'd be happy with a pwipe before summer.


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